Watch the mortality anxiety replay
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About this conversation
Fear of death is rarely only about dying. In this conversation, recorded days before the first anniversary of Beckley Retreats co-founder Amanda Feilding's passing, Neil Markey talks with Beckley Retreats lead facilitator Dr. Dingle Spence, a retired oncologist and palliative care doctor; Christine Caldwell, founder of End of Life Psychedelic Care; and author Abbie Rosner, who has interviewed dozens of older adults exploring psychedelics.
Christine describes the physical, emotional, existential, family and spiritual pressures people face with a serious illness. Abbie talks about "conscious eldering": treating later life as its own stage for asking big questions, not an extension of youth. Dingle explains what a supportive setting looks like, why the first session can be hard, and why many guests choose to continue.
Jump to a topic
- 02:13 | Introductions
- 07:29 | What comes up when facing mortality
- 10:34 | Later life as an inflection point
- 13:44 | Aging, identity and conscious eldering
- 18:50 | Why later life suits this kind of reflection
- 22:40 | What psilocybin experiences can reach
- 30:24 | Fear of psychedelics and "this is your brain on drugs"
- 34:28 | Set, setting and preparation
- 41:45 | What the panel wants you to take away
- 45:53 | Why the first session can be hard
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Selected transcript excerpts
These short excerpts are lightly edited from the recording's captions. Watch the full replay for context.
Dr. Dingle Spence on the preciousness of life
At some point we're all going to have to disappear. But in the meanwhile, how do we live in the preciousness of life, in the gratitude?
Abbie Rosner on elderhood
We look at elderhood not just as an extension of our youth, but as a distinct period in life where we ask these big questions. Who am I? Am I living my most authentic life? Do I have unfinished business?
Dr. Dingle Spence on the facilitator's role
We're not there to fix you at all. We're there to accompany you through it, and that may be holding your hand, giving you a hug, sitting with you, taking you out into nature.
Christine Caldwell on what she hopes people take away
Helping people understand their own relationship to death and dying allows them to live more fully in the present, with psychedelics as one tool.
Questions this replay answers
What is mortality anxiety?
Christine describes it as more than a fear of dying. A serious illness can bring physical strain, anxiety and fear of the unknown, a loss of purpose and role, guilt or unfinished business with family, and questions about what comes after.
Do I need to be unwell to come on a Beckley Retreats program?
No. Dingle describes guests who come at turning points in later life, such as retirement or an empty nest, and wants to move away from the idea that only people with a diagnosis can benefit. Every applicant still goes through screening and a suitability consultation.
Why can the first session be hard?
Grief, anger and old pain can surface, Dingle explains, and some guests say afterwards that they don't want to do it again. With support from the facilitators and the group, most step back in for the second session, and many say it helped them understand the first.
Where does Beckley Retreats run its programs?
Only where psilocybin is legal: Jamaica and the Netherlands. Read how our program works.
Questions to reflect on
- What would you want to do, say or resolve while there is time?
- What does elderhood mean to you?
- How might you live differently if you held impermanence a little closer?
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Our Speakers
Christine Caldwell
Founder and Executive Director of End of Life Psychedelic Care (EOLPC)
Abbie Rosner
Author, Psychedelics and the Counterculture of Aging
Dingle Spence
Beckley Retreats Lead Facilitator, Training in Oncology and Palliative Medicine
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